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by Fr René Laurentin The following account by Fr René Laurentin, the well known investigator of Medjugorje and countless other apparitions and charisms, of his first meeting with Vassula back in 1989 remains one of the most wide-ranging and informative accounts of Vassula's particular charism and mission. I spoke about her with Patrick de Laubier, who lives in Geneva, Switzerland. He then went to see her. Next, he took a week's retreat to read her writings. Shortly after, now convinced, he brought her to me at Every on August 26, 1989. I questioned her for a long time. She responded in a measured, coherent, and satisfactory way. The narrow way of discernment I do not feel qualified to make a judgment on these messages. I have only tried to raise good questions and to honestly record the answers. The readers will have to judge for themselves. I did this investigation, among others, as a man who is amazed, overwhelmed, and dazzled by the contemporary multiplication of apparitions, communications, and extraordinary charisms. Seven years ago, I did not know any active seers. Today, I know dozens. I didn't know any stigmatics. Today, I know a dozen. (Vassula is not one of them). I ask myself the burning question: what does this multiplication mean... illuminism or an outpouring of grace? The church intelligentsia tends to think that the critical response, i.e. negative, is always the best. But discernment can only base itself on facts. Here they are surprising, often in a positive sense. We should avoid the two pitfalls which threaten the subject: on the one hand, there is a mind closed to grace, which extinguishes the Spirit, on the other hand there is an illuminism that imitates grace and is its caricature. Let us therefore avoid both a narrow secularism and that gluttonous pietism which deviates towards the opposite extreme. What is truly important (and often forgotten) is discernment. This should normally be the daily bread of every seer and of everyone who feels called to share in their grace. Who is Vassula? Vassula Ryden, who is seated before me, was born in Egypt of Greek parents on January 18, 1942. In 1966, she married a student who began working for F.A.O. in 1968. From then on, her husband's career took her from country to country: sixteen years in Africa (Sierra Leone, Ethiopia, Sudan, Mozambique, Lesotho), and then a few years in Asian Bangladesh (in March, 1984). A new posting of her husband brought her providentially to Switzerland (in August 1987), where she is in a better position to spread her message. Her blond, nordic profile makes her seem Swedish like her husband. But her father, though Greek, was also blond. Both of her parents were Greeks, though they were the second generation to live in Egypt. She has a balanced, harmonious air, the result of a profound peace. She is reserved, but without timidity; her perfect decorum is accompanied by a great interior assurance. She receives her messages in English, her best language, but she also speaks Greek, French, Swedish, and Arabic, etc. For a long time she was absorbed in the higher strata of worldly society: she did fashion modeling in the capital city of Bangladesh; she was also a gifted painter. In a word, she was absorbed in worldly activities and success, which for her are now things of the past. She has kept an attractiveness that, in perfect modesty, remains hers today. For thirty years (1955-1985) she had never put a foot in a church, except for such social obligations as marriages and funerals. Nevertheless, in her childhood, she had already had two dreams which had deeply impressed her. When she was ten, a call from Christ had come while she was sleeping. With an irresistible force He was calling her to Him. The following year, at the age of eleven, in a dream she saw her spiritual marriage with Jesus. The Virgin Mary welcomed her with open arms and prepared her wedding garments and tresses for the marriage. She was so moved by this that she spoke to her mother about it, but it did not change her life then. Today that forgotten dream has again become alive and pertinent as a promise fulfilled. Mary Magdalene, she recalls, was present for her spiritual wedding. But that was only a dream that had passed over the surface of her life. So it happened that she wandered away from religious practices, caught up in the current that swept along so many Catholics in the time since the Council. She had not even gone ten times to a church after her childhood. The simplicity of her appearance is a positive sign. Her straight, blond hair frames her face as in certain classic paintings of Christ. Her home too is kept in perfect order, something that I have also noticed in the homes of other seers, who unite prayer with common sense, love for God and for their family. Those who have visited her home have fully confirmed this. When you came to Bangladesh, did you have any spiritual communications? Were you practicing your religion? -I didn't even go to the Christmas Mass. The purifying angel When was it that the communications, from Christ began? -It began sometime in the last week of November 1985, but it wasn't Christ yet. What happened that day? -I felt in my body a kind of supernatural vibration that was flowing through my hands. I had been writing a shopping list, but my hand began to shake and the pencil was too strong for me to control. It was my guardian angel. He began to write spiritual messages. How did you know it was your guardian angel? -Because using my own hand, he wrote, "I am your guardian angel." His name is Daniel and he helped me make a sketch which represents him. But then, when you write, it is your own muscles that are acting. -Yes, but even if I resist, it doesn't stop. It's the same with Jesus. Once I started to doubt and I said to myself, "it is impossible that things like this are happening to me". I wanted to put down the pencil, but Jesus, as if to encourage me, took control of the pencil more fully. He wrote even faster, as if to tell me not to have doubts. But we were still speaking about the angel.... -The angel prepared me; it was a kind of purification. He showed me my sins as one sees them in purgatory. Little sins that had previously seemed to me to be nothing at all, I now saw with other eyes. They seemed enormous, and that made me feel so bad that I hated myself. How could I have done such things? It was a great purification. Dictation from Jesus How long did that last, two years? -No, just three months for the angel. At the end of those three months, who came? the Virgin Mary? Christ? -Jesus came. He asked me, "Which house is more important, yours or Mine?" You could see Him then? -Yes, interiorly. I can describe Him. I even said: "Often you look sad." He answered me: "No, I am not sad when I am with humble souls, with those who sacrifice themselves, with those who love me". But did he always seem sad? -He has dimples when he smiles! There is one thing that creates a problem in these messages. Jesus said to you several times that He was suffering. But now that He has risen, does He still suffer? -My spiritual director made the same objection: "How can He suffer now that He is glorified? " -Jesus answered me: "I suffer because I am one with all of you, and I feel it when someone rebels against Me". You began to discern Christ three months after the angel, that would be in February of 1986. How did that happen? -Up until then, I was intimidated by Christ, but one day He took the place of my angel without my knowing it. At the end of the message He said: "See, that's how you ought to be intimate with Me." He insists on this intimacy. Could you be more precise? Transcendent yet intimate -At the beginning of these messages when I was in Bangladesh, one day while Jesus was dictating to me, I suddenly thought: "the oven is on!" Then, I exclaimed, " Oh! Jesus asked: "What's wrong?" I said: I think something is burning in the oven." He said: "Then let's go down there right away"... But at the same time he reveals His holiness: intimacy and holiness. What do you mean by holiness? -Adoring God. Yes, holiness, in the Biblical sense, is Transcendence. During the dictation were you in ecstasy? Were you withdrawn from the outside world like the seers at Medjugorje? It does not seem like it. No, I see what's around me, but I am absorbed in Jesus and His message. It's a little like when you are writing at your desk and don't think about what's around you, which is nevertheless still present to your sight. But you are very dependent. For the seers at Medjugorje, the apparitions especially aroused their freedom. -He asked me not to take a step without asking Him. But doesn't that change you into a robot? It is not even your handwriting any more: it is somebody else's. And even though it is your hand, a graphologist wouldn't dare to say that it is the same person. -Yes, but Jesus has told me and clearly shown me that this handwriting is not automatic writing, as some people imagine...... the discussion on the special handwriting continues here You were just saying that God is both transcendent and near, adorable and intimate. How do you reconcile this familiarity with adoration? -At first, I used to write sitting down. Now I write while kneeling in front of a little table in my room with a dozen icons. At first I didn't kneel down; when I understood truly the message, I also realized the greatness of Christ. He said to me: "Vassula, don't I deserve more than that?" Since then, I always remain kneeling. And how long does this last? -Four or five hours, sometimes six: four in the morning and two in the afternoon. Do you mean that you only write? Do you pray? Do you ask Him things? -Yes, I talk to Him about everything. He told me never to take a step without asking Him: "Come to Me, seek my advice, and I will tell you." Did you ask Him about coming here? -Yes, I asked Him and He said: "Be confident, lean on Me". Temptations Once, the devil appeared to you. -Yes, I have often been attacked by the devil. He even went so far as to give me four lines that made sense. Did your hand move? -Yes, but Jesus taught me how to discern. When it isn't Jesus, it leaves me completely cold. As soon as I realize it, he gets up and leaves. One day he even dared to come while Jesus was dictating. Then Jesus turned to Him and said: "Silence!" Then he was quiet. Then, when you realize who he is, the demon leaves you? -Right away, but he insults me before going. What kind of things does he say? -The insults? "Bitch" and other things like that. But it was like that especially last year. You were insulted, not assaulted? -Assaulted? Once, it was almost physical. One night, it was like a bird of prey, an eagle, that came to grab me at the waist; I was suffocating; I could not breathe. But I called out the name of Jesus and it left me. Why publish? But why publish these notebooks? -After three years, He asked me to make these messages public. In November of 1988, he insisted that there should be prayer meetings once each month. Before it was kept private? -Yes, just He and I, and only four or five persons. Family Your husband is not involved? -No, he is Lutheran. And your children? -They believe and defend me, especially the youngest. He becomes like a little lion. If I get in a disagreement, he starts listening in his room, then he comes right away to support me and says "what's going on here?" One day, Jesus said to me: "Mary is the Mother of God." For me it was something new. As I was thinking it over that night, my son came to my room around 9.30 with an Asterix book in his hand to say to me: "Mary is the Mother of God, isn't she?" But how did such an idea come to him? A don't know. That struck me. The next day, I was taking him to school and I reminded him, "You came to my room last night and asked that." He had by then completely forgotten it. He didn't know what it meant any more? -No. Then he is interiorly very united to you? -Yes, that day Jesus spoke through him. And what does Jesus ask of you? -That I become holy. That frightened me. I thought it meant: go to a monastery, leave your family. I was running away from Him. Then I returned to Him to say: "Do you want me to be honest with You?" "Yes," He said. Then I said: "Can't I love you the way I am?" "Of course. That's what I want, because it is the heart that counts; remain as you are." And He added, "If the salt loses its flavor, of what use is it? It isn't the habit, it's the heart that is important". Devotion to the Cross What kind of holiness does he expect from you? -Sharing everything with Him, carrying His cross, following His law. Did He give you a mission? -Yes. What is it? -He said to Me, "You are to write, to love Me, and to spread my message. It is I who will do the rest. " And how long are you going to write like this? -"Till the end of your days." He told me. Till the end. I said to Him, "Hurry." You are in a hurry to leave this world and join Him? -Oh, yes. Aren't you afraid of death? Not at all? -No, not at all, He lets me taste a little bit of Paradise. What else could I want? That doesn't keep you from sometimes becoming tired, discouraged? -Yes, after three years I said to Him: "Lord, it is good to take your Word, but it is very heavy to carry it alone." I was very discouraged, and that same night I saw a long stairway that went all the way up to heaven, and there before me were Padre Pio and St. Francis of Assisi." Two stigmatics! -I do not know. You didn't see their stigmata? -No. Padre Pio spoke to me in Italian. I didn't understand well except that he was telling me not to give up, to continue, to be encouraged. St. Francis showed me the stairway. At the top, I saw the silhouettes of all the saints, and they were gesturing with their hands, "climb! climb!" What were they trying to tell you? -Not to give up, to continue without getting discouraged. Once you asked Christ to be allowed to give up this way and to begin a normal life again. -Yes, I begged Him. I said to Him: "I can't go on any more. Leave me. I will continue to love You just like other people, but I can't go on any more like this". And yet you are not afraid of death. Is this mission so hard then? -Yes, but then He opened His Heart. I saw it wounded unto death. He showed me all His wounds, and He began to dictate a very heart-rending message: "I am being scourged daily...." Then I said to myself: "No, I must not abandon Him." That was Thursday (August, 24). It was late at night. I was writing a letter to a priest in Canada who wanted all the cassettes. I asked Jesus what more I could add. He answered me, "Tell him that I bless him." I added that, and said to Jesus, "Couldn't we at last go to sleep, my Lord?" He said to me: "let us rest, but on the condition that I rest in your heart and you rest in My Sacred Heart." First distributions of the message Have you distributed the messages in Greece? -At Rhodes, the Orthodox charismatics have accepted it. I taught them the Rosary and they accepted it. They hang it around their necks. Was it a parish, a monastery? -No, a very open charismatic group. Many of them speak English and read the messages. Your mission for the Christ is unity. In your messages, Jesus often speaks of Pope John Paul II as "Peter's successor". But what does your Orthodox Church think of that? -I gave the messages to the Orthodox Metropolitan Dainaskinos. He took note of them and is studying them. Maybe the messages about the Pope create some difficulty for him, for they declare his primacy. Primacy or jurisdiction? The primacy is recognized by the Orthodox. It is jurisdiction that causes problems. Vassula is not used to this terminology. She says to me: -The Pope is the foundation of the Church. He is the successor of Peter. Jesus says: " I have chosen him, people should acknowledge him. She adds: -Some people also asked Archbishop Mamie (the Catholic Archbishop of Fribourg) to designate a church where I could read the messages. He didn't object, but he didn't take any position yet. The resurrection of Russia She continues: -Jesus also spoke to me about Russia. The first time was January, 1988. He said, "Your sister is dead"; I saw a woman lying on the ground, exhausted, emaciated. It was Russia. In February, 1988, he showed her to me again: I am going to raise her like Lazarus. I have placed my hand on her cold heart." A third time on March 11, 1988, He said to me: "Russia will glorify Me.` That is in agreement with the messages of Fatima and Medjugorje. Do you know them? Did He speak to you of the Immaculate Heart of Mary at Fatima? -He told me: I am leading you to My Mother, in the room where I was conceived. I didn't know how to interpret these words. Is He speaking of Nazareth? I think rather of being within Mary. Yes, the Fathers of the Church and the Council have said that Mary conceived in her heart before conceiving in her body. -Jesus asked me to draw up a procedure for these meetings in churches. I told Him: "I don't know how; I don't know how to speak; I don't know how to do anything." He answered: "But it is not you who will do it; I will do it, and I will dictate the program for you." He asked me to evangelize with love for Love. But what is your own initiative in all this? Do you develop a theme? -Yes, for example, He gave me this program: "Bless them in My name." Then I say: "All of this program has been planned by Jesus, and I bless you in His name." But why is there this multiplication of apparitions that is both surprising and shocking? -Yes, I think they are going to multiply according to the prophecy of Joel 3: "Your children will see visions and your aged will have dreams." Your messages stress the Holy Spirit. -Yes, I wake up at night and hear the prayers that He says within me. The Holy Spirit prays within us. It's a tangible presence. The Holy Spirit within me prays the prayers of the Church. One day, it was the Creed. Your experience is indeed that of St. Paul: "The Holy Spirit cries out in us 'Abba', Father...." You also have a message of healing. -Yes, spiritual healing, conversion. But some people have told me that they were physically healed. For one, it was cancer. For another, it was A.I.D.S. She spoke to me seriously without elaborating on these facts for which she has no scientific documentation. She also spoke to me of the scent of perfume that occurs at times, and of her vocal prayers. -Each day, I begin with three prayers: one to St. Michael the Archangel, one to the Sacred Heart in reparation, and one to the Blessed Virgin Mary. She shows them to me and recites them in English. Do you have any messages for priests? -Yes, they should be less skeptical. They shouldn't extinguish the Spirit. Jesus says: "If you believe in the Holy Spirit, why do you persecute Him (in those who have charisms) Why do you want Me silent? Why do you want a dead God?" Contradiction Have you had difficulties with priests? -One, Father S., an exorcist in Switzerland. At first, he supported me. Then he changed his mind. He thinks that I might disturb the Marian Movement of Don Gobbi. Nevertheless, I am a member, and my spiritual director, Father Fannan of Bangladesh, is also in the Movement in that country, and he supports me. What kind of objections does Father S. make? -He never exactly said. A mystic advised him. It seems that the devil said to her regarding me, 'I have succeeded".' Your messages make it clear that the devil did in fact try to deceive you. It is typical, but you weren't deceived by him. (To me she seems gifted with discernment.) Daily life Listening to you, someone might think that you live in another world. You pray for four hours in the morning and two hours in the evening, but what do you do the rest of the time? -I have something to eat in a hurry at noon. I have to do my errands, not just for myself, but for my mother who is tired. She isn't sick, but she can't walk very well. Thus I do all the errands; then I take care of my son after school. Then you are very busy. But what happens on days when you are away from home, like today for example on this trip? -I get a small message, maybe a page or two, but tomorrow I will get a tot more. Are there days when you get no message at all? -No, even if it's just three minutes. I wouldn't be able to give it up. Will you be able to write in the train that takes you home? -Not only can I write, I can concentrate to hear His voice and converse with Him. I see Him interiorly. And when the conductor comes, He doesn't stop me from saying: "One ticket, please." He taught me to speak of "us": "We are going out, we are going to make a cup of coffee." It is always "we", "us" Why? -So that I never forget Him. Even when I was in the bus and I said to the conductor "one ticket". I laughed and said to Jesus, "You see how lucky we are? I asked for one ticket, but there are two of us." He answered me: "We are one, we are only one." United or one? -United and one. Do you fast? -Wednesdays and Fridays on bread and water. As at Medjugore? -Yes, as at Medjugorje. Is it because of Medjugorje? -I asked Jesus if he wanted me to fast as they do at Medjugode and he said, yes. But how do you do it with your family? -At first I didn't dare. Now I do it. -How much bread do you take for a meal, one slice or two? -Two, and I confess monthly. Just as they have asked at Medjugorje? -Yes, and Jesus also asked me to say the rosary. But the fasting, was it you who asked Him? -Yes, I asked him" "Do you want me to fast?" He said: "Yes, that would please Me". But do you teach others to do it? -Yes, I do. Medjugorje What about Medjugorje? -He spoke to me about Medjugorje. Is it He who sent you there? -Yes, my spiritual director was urging me; I didn't know how to go about going there. Then I said to the Blessed Mother, "If it is really you who wants me to go, arrange it all for me, because I don't know where to begin. And in one week, everything was taken care of. A friend called me and said that everything had been arranged for a bus trip. When was that? -Last year (1988) on June 25. Then we were there together, but there was such a crowd. Meetings and conversions And the fruits of your messages? -There are conversions. Among others, a mason, a Jehovah witness, and many lay people who were far away from God. What sort of people come to your meetings? -Many kinds of people. There are the newly converted, there are those who are learning to love God as He wants them to love Him. There are also priests. Some tell me that they pray better after reading the messages. And how do you go about teaching them to know God? -I myself don't teach them anything; it is the message that teaches. God says: "How can you love someone if you do not know him?" "Come to know Me and you will love Me. Nevertheless, you are not a robot. -No, He dictates to me, He reassures me. I give what He gives to me, nothing more. If I don't know how to answer a question, I say: I don't know; I haven't received anything about that; I can't answer you." When someone asks me for a private message, I say, "but you have messages, 2000 pages of them, and maybe more. Your meetings take place each week? -No, once a month. The Capuchins of St. Maurice have started to host us. It's in Valais, near Econe, just a half-hour away. Now these meetings take place all over in Switzerland. How many people come to these monthly meetings? -That depends, 150-200. And how long do they last? -An hour and a half. Discernment At the end of this free-ranging conversation, some things are quite evident. Vassula refers everything to Jesus. These communications do not disturb her life nor her duties in life. She does everything in peace. Through the writings, many people have found spiritual nourishment, have been converted, and find union with Christ through prayers - a new life. These are positive signs, and within the limits of my investigation, I don't find any bad ones. Her sincerity is clear. Her union with Christ and her profound infused sharing in His Passion is genuine. The fruits of her prayer are positive in those around her, as well as in her own life. As for the mission of unity that Vassula has received, it converges with the ecumenical movement which has been raised up by the Spirit since the beginning of the century, but trampled under foot. May these messages from an Orthodox believer stimulate it. |